What Have Modern Polytheists’ Reactions Been to the Netflix/BBC Series Troy: Fall of a City?

As is so often the case, I am way behind on many things, and watching particular films and television series is no exception. I think I might have heard of this show when it came out in 2018, but did not have a chance to see it (it’s only eight episodes, each about an hour long) until the last several days.

I may be discussing it in-depth here, so if you’re one of these people who reads some version of a review of narrative media and is mad if it talks about it in particular details, I’ll just say that since this is based on stories that have existed for the better part of the last three millennia, and there’s not too much novel in it, then get over it.

To summarize before I even truly begin: I liked it! If I didn’t like it, I would not have continued with it, and I watched the first episode thinking I might just try it and then sleep on it and maybe watch another the next day…but no, I ended up watching the first three episodes that night before I went to bed.

I have only read a few reviews and reactions to the series, and almost all of them had me pissed off for a variety of reasons. To address some of the “big” issues people had with it that I think are pretty ridiculous:

–Some have said the show is too “racy” with its nudity warnings and such. There are various women’s breasts shown; there is an arse or two. No genitals of anyone are ever shown, even in statuary. About the only full nudity that occurs are a few bath scenes, but even there, most of the lower halves of people are concealed by the bath and/or the water, so I wouldn’t really count that. There are sex scenes, but there’s always clothing or coverings involved so you don’t really see anything other than people writhing on top of or against one another. Big fuckin’ deal…get over it, prudes!

–Was it “historically accurate”? As the events of the Trojan War are not reflective of what we can verify as actual history at any point, and even Homer’s version of the tale was therefore set in what would have been his own (and “Homer” probably wasn’t a historical person, either!) contemporary cultural and technological setting, any discussion of a media portrayal of the story that tries to make itself sound like it is concerned with these things is barking up the wrong tree. Most of the versions of the story that people have known in the European world have not been Homer’s version since the end of late antiquity, and we have no small number of versions that show the Greeks as medieval armor-clad knights, and there’s even the Irish version known as Togail Troi that sets the tale as one of the medieval Irish genres of “Destructions” (of cities or buildings), and in my own position as both a scholar of premodern narratives and someone who understands the personal and cultural functions of myth, this is as it should be! The story of Troy is always more illustrative of what is going on when it is told than anything actually historical–it’s a mirror into the people and culture that tells it. So, there’s stirrups on the horses; there’s an ostrich in it for a few seconds; the ships’ prows look a bit more like Viking ships than any period of Greek ships…and any number of other such “anachronisms.” I don’t think it really matters that much, honestly. The only one I would really dispute is Helen making reference to the story of “Actaeon and Diana” rather than “Aktaion and Artemis,” especially since Artemis is then later referenced (and portrayed directly!) in the show with the incident of Agamemnon’s sacrifice of Iphigenia, on which more later.

–One of the other biggest gripes, and sadly not surprising, is that there are many major characters who are portrayed by Black actors: Pandarus (who has an interesting role in this in comparison to Troilus and Cressida, for example), Nestor, Aeneas, the Deities Zeus, Athena and Artemis, and most significantly for the story and overall screen time, Achilles and Patroclus (I’m going to use their spelling/pronunciation of this, rather than my usual “Achilleus” to distinguish the Greek Hero from Achilles the Trophimos of Herodes Attikos). This is another occurrence in a long line of British casting choices where race blindness is in operation, and I think there’s nothing wrong with it. (In the Royal Shakespeare Company production of Troilus and Cressida that I saw when I was in Oxford, Paris was portrayed by a Black man, and yet all of the other sons of Priam were played by white actors…and so what?) Again, people trying to argue that it is “non-historical” to have Black actors in these roles, or playing these characters “realistically,” is a bunch of bullshit since there is nothing historical about the story in the first place. Yes, it would have been nice if Memnon were in this version (he has yet to appear in modern media outside of fiction, alas), but perhaps they attempted to at least allude to him in the way they portrayed Aeneas as the cousin of the Trojan princes “from the south,” perhaps thus referring to Egypt/Ethiopia rather than the Dardanian provenance of Aeneas’ father Anchises (which is to the north of Troy traditionally).

–Some have said the acting was bad, the characters unlikable, and the pace was way too slow. I would disagree on all three: only eight hours to tell the whole saga of Troy is too little, in my view, and a 10-12-part series would have been better, but still probably not enough. They decided to focus on particular moments, and more on interpersonal matters than on large epic combats (which, whether they are done with hundreds of extras and cavalry and so forth, or are computer-generated, are very expensive, so I understand why there was so little of that in this), which is what I personally prefer. I didn’t feel that any of the characters were portrayed “inaccurately” to what we have about them in earlier literatures, and thought the actors did a fine job with what they were given. Agamemnon is cruel but conflicted and then vindictive; Menelaus is inept and overly prideful; Odysseus is deceitful though occasionally merciful, only to have his own feelings overridden by his duties to his superiors. We get some backstory on several characters in detail, and as this is a telling that is more sympathetic to and focused upon the Trojans rather than the Greeks, we get a lot on Paris’ background, which though not exactly as it was in the original literatures, is closer than anything we have seen on a screen before (e.g. he was abandoned after birth due to a prophecy that he would ruin Troy by his presence, though the circumstances and details in the series are slightly different than the established literature). That Zeus chooses Paris to judge between the three Goddesses because of his impartiality in an earlier competition with Ares is not mentioned, though they do work Hermes (who escorted Paris to Mt. Ida for the judgement) into the scene of the judgement, though He is nowhere else portrayed in the film. Some have said that Achilles was not portrayed “emotionally enough,” perhaps, and was just indifferent, moody and angry…but to my knowledge, this is how he is portrayed in the Iliad itself, so I don’t see any problems there!

–Though as part of pacing, there is the fact that time is elapsed but also not shown as being long enough in certain respects. The war is said to last “years,” and traditionally it was ten years, but no one seems to age, including a child (Evander!) that ends up surviving and going with Aeneas, still appearing as roughly .7-9 years old from when the war started until it ends. Further, the judgement of Paris took place just after the wedding of Thetis and Peleus, which means Achilles would not have been born yet at that point…and yet it seems that this judgement occurs and then a month or two later, he’s meeting Helen in Sparta and they elope soon after, the Greeks follow, and Achilles is a full-grown adult already. While the actual chronology on this is not entirely clear in the originals (I imagine Paris would have had to have been a late teen when the judgement occurred, then a good deal of time would have passed before he met Helen, and then Achilles would have been a mid-to-late teen when he joined the war), the narrative order of events is indisputable, so at least they got that correct.

–In comparison to the 2004 Troy film, for a whole host of reasons, this one is far superior. There is no reference to atheism (as I’ve written about on my old blog, which so often happens with other Greek/Roman myth/history retellings on film and television these past two decades, e.g. Troy, Immortals, Clash of the Titans, Spartacus: Blood and Sand), Deities make regular appearances in the series (as opposed to only Thetis in the 2004 film…and sadly, She does not appear in this series, though She is referred to–not by name–several times, and alluded to pretty clearly by Achilles at one point when he muses, “What does the Sea think of all this?”) and the Deities’ favor or disfavor follows directly on characters’ actions–and everyone acknowledges it!–and though the portrayal of time has some problems in this series, it at least looks like it took longer than the 2004 film, which makes the whole Trojan campaign appear to have been a matter of weeks or months rather than years. While the series does mistake “belief” as being a major issue in religious matters (a common creedal monotheist-normative cultural mistake when examining other religions), no one questions the reality of the Deities at any point, and that is a major step forward. One of the things that made the 2004 film so objectionable on that point was that Thetis’ appearance near the beginning of the film puts all of those sorts of questions entirely to the “moot” category, and thus Hector’s apparent private atheism is essentially either a modern intrusion on the skeptical author’s or producer’s part/s, or it shows how very weak and hypocritical the character was, when in fact Hector is almost inevitably portrayed as “the best of men,” as he was to a large extent in the film, and as he is in this series as well.

So, enough with the answers to some critical comments that others have made. What about the rest?

As a character study, one thing I found of great interest is the contrast that is made between Priam and Hecuba’s rulership of Troy and their approach to prophecy and religious piety, versus that of Agamemnon and Clytemnestra (who is never mentioned to be the sister of Helen, though Agamemnon’s winning of Helen for Menelaus is a matter of scorn throughout the series…though it is novel in this telling; on other discrepancies of lineage and such, I will have more to say below).

Priam and Hecuba literally share a throne in Troy, and a point is made of the relative equality of station and opinion that the women of Troy enjoy with their husbands, including co-rulership and co-decision-making. Thus, both Priam and Hecuba are equally to blame for the casting out of Paris, which is as the prophecies related to him suggested, but then likewise receive him back happily when the time comes, though they are aware that it may result in their doom ultimately, and they and their family are given many reminders that it will be so along the way. They are shown to be exemplary and in many ways idealized, concerned for their people, compassionate, and fair…and when the Greeks meet them, they are degraded as being degenerate “Asiatics.”

Agamemnon, though, is an interesting contrast to them. When he learns that Artemis requires the sacrifice of Iphigenia to allow their voyage to Troy to commence–and the Goddess’ non-speaking appearance to the priest as he divines on this shows Her to be upset, or perhaps even conflicted, over it, which is quite interesting–Agamemnon is understandably upset, but readily assents to it, and to deceiving both his wife and daughter over it. Clytemnestra only appears in this scene, and is totally unaware of what is to come, and then when she realizes what is going on, she is beside herself with grief and anger, understandably! Agamemnon is upset that it must be done, but he goes through with it, and after an initial horrified reaction on Iphigenia’s part, she then resigns herself to her fate and stops and says “Let it be without struggle” that she be sacrificed. This was a moving scene, above the obvious emotionality of it and the difficulty of the situation, because she is clearly pious and knows how sacrifice should be offered in her religious context.

But, what I find interesting here is how this is shown as the contrast to the sharing of decision-making, even where prophecies and divine injunctions are concerned, on the part of Priam and Hecuba. Hecuba and Priam discuss almost everything, whereas Agamemnon makes the decision himself, and thus demonstrates that his culture has little regard for women as anything other than pawns and prizes. This decision, of course, gets him killed in the aftermath of the series (whether the audience knows it or not!), and it is a brutal following of the requirements of piety and prophecy; but as his side is the ultimate “winner” in the war, it sets up an interesting counterpoint to the Trojans, who are aware of the dangers involved in going against the prophecies given to them related to Paris, and yet they do as the interests of family cohesion and compassion would direct all the same, though it results in their ruin ultimately. I wonder what the writers and producers of the show wished to communicate in this, even though it is something that is present in the original texts (though without the aftermath of the further ruin of the House of Atreus, the larger point might be lost somewhat).

While we hear that Achilles is the son of a Goddess (unnamed), we never hear that Helen is the daughter of Zeus, nor of her brothers the Dioskouroi, nor that Aeneas is the son of Aphrodite (though She appears more frequently than any other Deity in the series), nor that various other people on each side are the children of Deities (and most others don’t even appear as characters). Apollon (as “Apollo”) is mentioned a great deal, especially on the Trojan side, but is never seen directly appearing at any point, though prophecies and prodigies are relayed and interpreted by His priests frequently. That Thetis is not in the series at all is especially lamentable to me, not only because of my own connection with Her, but because Achilles is Black, and thus it makes me wonder if Thetis would have been portrayed by a Black actress as well. (Since Artemis and Athena were both portrayed by Black actresses, whereas the only other two Goddesses in the series are Hera and Aphrodite–portrayed by White actresses–I suppose it is 50/50!) If so, that would have really been amazing for me, because that is exactly how Thetis appeared to me in my first major experience with Her last year, and thus it would have been very intriguing to see that coincidence since I was not aware of this series’ content when all of that occurred in May of 2020.

One other thing that I have to praise this series for is that Achilles and Patroclus are, in fact, portrayed both as loving each other, and as essentially bisexual, as there is a bit of a threesome in the show between Briseis (who is portrayed pretty accurately, though where she comes from is not the same as traditionally in the earlier literature), Achilles, and Patroclus, and then the demand of Agamemnon for Briseis in recompense for Chryseis follows this relatively quickly, which sets up Achilles’ refusal to fight and so forth. That this was done correctly here is fantastic, since there was nothing but “cousinly affection” shown between Achilles and Patroclus in the 2004 film, and it all seemed to be more about Achilles’ attachment to Briseis, ultimately, than about Paris and Helen in that awful, awful movie. So, on this–and on a few brief bits in which Penthesileia expresses her love for women and aversion for men–the series gets much higher marks, though they make it sound as if homoeroticism is not as common as it was amongst the canonical characters of the story (including the Deities…let’s not forget that Ganymede happened before Troy and in many ways is backstory to it, not to mention Poseidon and Pelops being in the backstory of the House of Atreus!).

What about the Deities and the other characters? I would have liked to have seen Apollon appear rather than just being present through priests and prophecies and prodigies (nice alliteration there!); I also would have liked to see Athena appear around Odysseus and inspire him more, as She did not have as large a part as She deserves in all of this (Hera seems to move in that direction for a split second at one point, which is an interesting thing). Aphrodite’s appearances are pretty consistent with the established lore, though she goes even further with Paris at one stage, which I’ll let you see for yourself, as it is an interesting and rather “modern” and perhaps even directly Buffy the Vampire Slayer-esque touch at one stage! And, as I’ve indicated above, I would have loved to have seen Thetis intercede with Zeus, appear to Her son, and to have lamented Him, and likewise for Eos to have done so with Memnon (and for Memnon to appear at all!), since that combat was even more important in sealing Achilles’ fate than has ever been shown in any screen version of Troy that has ever occurred thus far.

I also have to say: the Trojan horse’s appearance and explanation in this version was far more satisfying than any I have seen before in its rationalization. It’s very modern, yes, but also very appropriate, and makes of the Trojans rather opportunistic and impious people, which brings about their downfall at the moment they believe they have actually won, which is a very intriguing touch.

So, what I’m interested in knowing is: how many modern polytheists have seen this, and what did you think of it? Did you like or hate particular parts of it, or all of it? What was done well and what got in your way of enjoying it? Were you able to immerse yourself in its story and portrayals, or did some of its novelties and oddities distract you too much to appreciate what merits it may have had in its narrative choices? I am curious to know! Have at it in the comments, therefore! 😉

What, If Any, Is The Significance of Gender As Ascribed To Deities?

The last of Faoladh’s questions was the following:

Not really a question, but I wouldn’t mind seeing a discussion of what gender means among gods.

In phrasing this as I have above, I hope to turn the general topic into a specific question which one can attempt to answer…and I’ll do that here below in what I think is a potentially reasonable theological fashion.

But first, I’d advise anyone who is interested in my answer on this issue to go back and read my previous blog post, where I attempted to reason that the differing identities of Deities partially results from human cultural and linguistic factors converging with both external (e.g. natural) and internal (e.g. cultural) phenomena.  That conception is important to this present question, in my view.

Going back to that line of reasoning, because theologies and identities occur in the human sphere and therefore partake of human languages in order to be conceptualized, one of the characteristics of human languages and our cultures is that gender is a significant signifier (!?!), particularly when personhood is ascribed to any subjective being.  Different languages have differing numbers of genders, from none (though they still tend to recognize at least two genders operationally, even if not being marked grammatically) to two to three or more.  As a result, one is not going to be able to go very far in some languages which occur in cultures that have Deities attached to certain natural phenomena when those phenomena also have genders…and thus one has the various cultures where the Solar Deities are female, like the Norse Sunna and the Japanese Amaterasu-Omikami, and then others where They are male, like the Greek Helios and the Roman Sol.  (And sometimes, there are multiple beings in a given culture that have these characteristics and attributions residually, e.g. Helen in Greek being a kind of euhemerized Solar Goddess, and Endymion being a euhemerized Lunar God despite Selene being the main Goddess associated with the moon, etc.)  In these various instances, the gender ascribed to a Deity is “obvious” in a cultural, linguistic, and grammatical sense, and so there’s little that can be done to get around it.

Those who say that gender is not intrinsic to Deities are right in the sense that the “existential objects” that often give rise to a perception of divine identity (and, recalling my previous post, though I didn’t use these exact words there, Deities are an emergent property of the cosmos rather than being an originating force of those properties…though that is a fine distinction!) do not have an intrinsic gender, either grammatically or physiologically (though of course the “physiological” sense is sex rather than gender…but far too many people use these terms synonymously, and thus the situation is more confused than it needs to be!), meaning that one is going to look in vain for a definitive solar phallus or solar vulva, for example, though different solar phenomena can have visual or symbolic links to or suggestions of such things (!?!).  But the same is true of a knife, a ship, the concepts of truth, virtue, sovereignty, and so forth…none of these physical or conceptual things which might have Deities connected to them have a social gender or a biological sex on any literal level, and thus in the linguistic and symbolic realms, particular cultures will emphasize certain things about them which then cause them to be ascribed particular gender characteristics and then their resulting Deities will have those characteristics as well.

It’s a rare culture indeed that has a definite grammatical gender attached to a Deity and then suggests that the Deity is beyond gender or has no gender…and for the most part, the only religious cultures I know of which maintain such a notion are monotheistic ones, where their Deities are generally spoken of as male linguistically and grammatically (because that is how they originated in their cultures before they became monotheistic!), but that the “reality” is otherwise…and yet again, they still tend to speak of these Deities as being male on a default level, which then bolsters the male-dominated cultural characteristics of said religions, etc.

It’s also quite rare when we look at worldwide mythologies to have particular Deities that “don’t seem to care” when it comes to presenting as one particular gender or another.  Zeus, to my knowledge, does not take feminine forms at any point in His many transformations and assumptions of human forms, though He does give birth on a few occasions (but “male birth” is also not entirely unheard of where Deities are concerned!).  But Dionysos has His usual range of forms that include both highly masculine forms and more effeminate forms, and He also has an entirely female form called Mise, which is only attested in Orphic contexts, but nonetheless it is there and therefore must be acknowledged.  This then raises the question of whether there is an intersubjective underlying identity between Mise and Dionysos, or whether Mise is Dionysos in origination but then becomes entirely different and distinct due to Her femininity.  A similar question could be asked about Vishnu and Mohini, since the latter is taken as a separate Deity, or at very least an avatar of Vishnu, which is His only attested female form.  (And don’t get started on Hari-Hara, the combined form of Mohini and Shiva that is then androgynous!)

What these examples are intended to illustrate, though, is that when there is a Deity that can take the forms of multiple genders, the tendency is for those forms that are the “minority” gender (usually female in these cases, with “minority” meaning “less-attested”) to become separate hypostases of the Deity that then tend to get treated differently and to attract a cultus of Their own.  Those Deities Who have a propensity to adopt a variety of genders tend to be in a class of Their own–such Deities might include Inari-Okami in the Shinto tradition, Who can take male, female, or androgynous forms as necessary or desired.  That this is not an ability or a characteristic that is ascribed to all Deities at all times shows that it tends to be something that is special and specific to certain Deities.  Loki has attested feminine forms, but Thor only has a few occasions on which He is said to have dressed as a woman despite still being a divine male.  The fact that we can point to a limited number of instances in any given culture’s pantheon of particular Deities taking multiple gender forms, at least phenomenologically, points toward the interpretation that gender is intrinsic to Deities, and the ability to shift gender or sex is also limited to particular individual Deities rather than being something that any of Them can or will do at Their leisure.

This is also a reason why, I think, the Tetrad++ have emerged as They have, and have the genders (that are not cis or binary) which They do.  If we can think of particular Deities as the daimones associated with particular natural, social, or conceptual phenomena that are then elevated to particularly significant status–indeed, some Greek and Roman theologians posited exactly that about all Deities!–then in certain respects the Tetrad++ Deities can be thought of as the daimones of Their particular genders, or as the deified abstractions of Their particular genders (though differing from deified abstractions generally in that They have attested narratives, whereas the usual deified abstractions tend not to in most cases–Ma’at is a superlatively important Deity and concept in Egyptian culture, but She doesn’t have the same extensive myths that Osiris and Isis and Sekhmet and others do!).  So, that may be one way to think of Them…

While this may not be as exhaustive or as extensive an exploration of this question as one might wish, it at least attempts to address the matter theologically from within the system in which I’ve been working.  It may not answer the question as implied by Faoladh, in that “what gender means among [Deities]” is not something I can currently answer, because I am not a Deity and am not privy to the semantic discussions which take place between Them in Their own realms (!?!), but I can attempt to reason through it in this realm where we do have gender as an intrinsic linguistic and cultural characteristic that has an emergent and originating logic that is perceptible to us, and thus in order to make Deities in any way thinkable for humans, gender tends to have to be a part of that.